Termination w/out notice

[Tatia]

I was just reading thread "complaining parent" (hope that gets sorted!) and it made me think of something I've been meaning to ask

I'm not sure about this at all so don't quote me but I seem to remember someone having gone through a similar thing (refusing to offer childcare for non-payment).

I think that unless there is a very serious issue (like safety or well-being of family member) that you cannot refuse to mind a child without giving proper notice. That puts YOU in breech of contract. I know, I know, I know that they broke the contract first by not paying when they said they would but legally speaking, you have to give them a certain amount of time to get their account current before taking action. I think it sucks and I could even be totally wrong but be careful about refusing care for late payment w/out taking legal advice.

Does anyone else remember this topic coming up before? In fact, I'm half inclined to phone NCMA myself tomorrow and ask about it. It seems insane that we could be the ones in trouble simply by refusing to continue providing a free service for deadbeats but I keep vaguely remember someone on this site talking about this before.

[Pipsqueak]

I seem to recall something like this too Tatia - you could well be right. I will be very interested in the answer.

[sarah707]

Go Tatia! Make that call!

[Pipsqueak]

The more I look at all of this the more I am coming to the conclusion that its all weighted more heavily in the parents area.
I know a contract should protect and serve both parties but there are so many things that we as childminders cannot do and its all so reliant on parents being fair and reasonable with us.

Blimey if you continually didn't pay/forgot to pay a nursery they wouldn't give you xx days to front up with the money. You can't take your shopping out of the supermarket till you've actually paid for it.
If I don't pay my kids swimming/guitar fees then they ain't allowed to attend.
If I "forget" to pay my dentist twice (ever) then I get taken of the books.

Why is it that we aren't allowed to protect ourselves and refuse service until fees are bought up to date - thats why so many minders end up with huge amounts being owed to them.

[angeldelight]

I seem to remember that thread also Tatia

I looked for it earlier myself but could not find it

Yep make the call and find out the correct information then let us know

Angel xx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I would be very dissappointed in the system and contracts if this were the case.

I hope that it is not as I think that the parent is wrong. It clearly states on page 3 that the parent will pay on time. If she didn't do this, surely she is in breach

[Tatia]

OKay, definitive answer from NCMA.

You may NOT refuse to offer childcare if a parent is in arrears. That leaves you open to be sued if the parent has to give up work because of it. If a parent gets behind in payment then what you should do is give them notice immediately and continue to offer childcare for the period of notice on your contract whether or not they pay you. Then, if they don't pay you and the debt is over £150, you can take it to court. Of course, at any time during the notice period, if parent becomes current and you want to continue with the family, you can cancel notice but I think that would depend upon exceptional circumstances (like could you ever trust them again or are they so angry with you they even want to contiunue).

There ya have it. The contract offers more immediate protection to parents but will cover your own bum in the event it all goes to court.

I didn't want to be right but it's better everyone is aware of this to save themselves heartache in the future.

[angeldelight]

Thought that was so

Thanks for the confirmation Tatia - we need to keep note of this for future reference

Angel xxx

[Mollymop]

Thanks for that Tatia. xx

[littletreasures]

Thanks Tatia

[ruby]

thank you very much will make a note of it in my diary


cathy

[sarah707]

Thank you for that Tatia!

I will keep a note in my files

[mum22]

Thank you for that.

[wellybelly]

Im quite concerned about this, only the other day i had a family owing me for 3 sessions which was in excess of £75. They paid eventually.

I only work part time but rely on parents paying on time. I provide good homemade food and lots of fruit and veg. How would I be able to pay for the service i provide if parents didnt pay? I want to be able to say to parents, pay or i cannot offer childcare, it is like tesco's you pay before you walk out of the shop!

Would using another contract give me more rights?

[Nix]

Thanks Tatia.

Nix,x

[cloud9]

I have been in the situation before and have been told i had to continue even thou the parent told me i wont be paying you anymore all i could do was then work my notice the whole time knowing i wasn't going to get paid. NCMA step in if the payment isnt made by the last day of the notice period and even then they will only intervene if the debt is over £75 well i was owed £800!
Even when i got sent the paperwork to claim with them it was still weighed towards the parent you had to show you had tried to recover the cost yourself then they intervene and basically the following happens:
1. they send a letter to the parent asking for full payment or they will taken legal action to recover the payment.
2. if they get no response they send another letter asking the parent to make a REASONABLE OFFER!
3. If the parent makes an offer say half the amount and the NCMA deem this ok if you then refuse the offer they wont represent on your behalf in the small claims court.
NCMA state that the have to deem the case worthwhile on there part to take further action.

I was really annoyed by this really luckily on the last day of the notice period i agreed on an arrangement with the parent involved of half the amount, the stress and upset of the whole ordeal was to much and i just didnt want to have any contact with the person again. I was also in the financial situation where i needed to pay my bills so the half was better

But i feel NCMA All along were more supportive on the parents, after all i was told i was not going to get paid yet NCMA said it didnt matter i just had to give notice and work for nothing basically and then i would get my money back months down the line.

[Tatia]

To be fair, it would be an indpendent law firm that is contracted by NCMA that is providing the legal advice, not the NCMA itself. And I'm guessing it's based on current laws as well as precedents having been set.

I don't think it's about being out to get childminders so much as the legal system in this country tends to lean more favourably to the debtee and not the debtor, regardless of the circumstances.

A friend of mine settled over £600. I can't remember if she agreed to half the sum but she was pretty much forced to accept £20 a month via direct debit for the next however many months.

[Blaze]

This is why I get at least 2 weeks deposit (which comes off the final invoice IF 4 weeks notice has been given & IF there are no outstanding arrears...written on the contract in additional notes)!... If not 4 weeks worth as a deposit, but I am aware this can be very hard for parents so I judge each family at the time of contracts being signed & will except 2 weeks...having said that I keep in mind that all the local nursaries get a month's deposit & get paid monthly in advance with NO exceptions! ....& I always get paid in advance...learnt the hard way..never again!!!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

OKay, definitive answer from NCMA.

You may NOT refuse to offer childcare if a parent is in arrears. That leaves you open to be sued if the parent has to give up work because of it. If a parent gets behind in payment then what you should do is give them notice immediately and continue to offer childcare for the period of notice on your contract whether or not they pay you. Then, if they don't pay you and the debt is over £150, you can take it to court. Of course, at any time during the notice period, if parent becomes current and you want to continue with the family, you can cancel notice but I think that would depend upon exceptional circumstances (like could you ever trust them again or are they so angry with you they even want to contiunue).

There ya have it. The contract offers more immediate protection to parents but will cover your own bum in the event it all goes to court.

I didn't want to be right but it's better everyone is aware of this to save themselves heartache in the future.

So unfair. How will you deal with it now?

[wendywu]

You could always go to the doctors and get signed off with stress or depression. But this would only work if they were your only family.