RISING 5 OFSTED CLARIFICATION

Pipsqueak · 16-09-2009, 06:30 PM

In response to your enquiry, the Rising 5 condition does still apply during weekends, school holidays and closures.

The Rising 5 condition states that 'they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult: child ratio'. You do not have to count them as over the age of 5 but you may in order to meet ratio requirements, providing that you stay within your maximum numbers at all times.

With regards to Rising 5's, The Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) statutory framework states (in relation to Childminders only):

"where four and five year old children attend the setting before and or after a normal school day, they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult:child ratio".

Providers may request the rising fives condition be added to their certificate for clarity but it is not a requirement to do so. Rising fives is part of the Early Years Foundation Stage requirements and all childminders are able to offer places for rising fives without having the condition on their certificate, providing the maximum number is not exceeded.

The ratios on your certificate are for the maximum number of children at any one time.

This is the emailed confirmation from Ofsted dated 14 and 15th September 09

**sarah707** · 16-09-2009, 06:50 PM

Pip has asked me to stick this thread for a while so everyone has a chance to read and digest the contents.

It has taken her a few days and a lot of hair pulling to get this information... thank you Pip!

So to clarify...

Once the children are in full time, 10 sessions a week school they are 5 for the purposes of your ratios...

They are 5 ALL the time, in term time, in holidays, at weekends, on inset days...

This refers to your own children as well as minded children.

They are not 5 when they are settling in or on half days... they must be full time, 10 sessions a week!!

You can have your certificate changed if you like but you don't need to bother.

**charliegee** · 17-09-2009, 02:16 PM

thanks Pipsqueak and Sarah for this

I too emailed Ofsted to ask for clarification and was told the same...put my mind fully at rest.

hope this clears up some worries

thanks again - you're stars!

x

**Winnie** · 17-09-2009, 08:35 PM

isnt it a shame that Ofsted can write things as clearly and simply as Sarah?? thank you Sarah

and pipsqueak

**miffy** · 17-09-2009, 09:22 PM

Thanks Pip and Sarah - lets hope Offie don't change their minds again!!!

Miffy xx

**christine e** · 18-09-2009, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by miffy

Thanks Pip and Sarah - lets hope Offie don't change their minds again!!!

Miffy xx

What's The Off Licence shop got to do with this then Miffy?
Ooops I'm showing my age here!

Ha Ha

Cx

**helenlc** · 18-09-2009, 12:57 PM

Thanks for that both of you. Me and some CM friends have been discussing this all week and I was going to call Ofsted myself.

**georgie456** · 18-09-2009, 09:29 PM

What a coincidence I spotted this today!

Ofsted rang me regarding this as I was asking because DD is in reception now.

The guy on the phone said he had no idea what happened in the holidays regarding rising 5's and that he had never been asked that question before!

Thankfully I just got my answer here!!!

**The Juggler** · 20-09-2009, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by georgie456

What a coincidence I spotted this today!

Ofsted rang me regarding this as I was asking because DD is in reception now.

The guy on the phone said he had no idea what happened in the holidays regarding rising 5's and that he had never been asked that question before!

Thankfully I just got my answer here!!!

ofsted, efficient as ever!

**mum22** · 29-09-2009, 12:16 PM

I just spoke to Ofsted as my ds in now in school 10 sessions per week, and I thought he would therefore free up a place for another under 5, but I was told this was not the case and he would be classed as under 5 until next year, I am so confused. I have 2 other under 5's - 1 my dd and 1 mindee per day inaddition to my ds who is now at school?

**LittleMissSparkles** · 29-09-2009, 12:21 PM

thanks Pip and Sarah x

**sarah707** · 29-09-2009, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by mum22

I just spoke to Ofsted as my ds in now in school 10 sessions per week, and I thought he would therefore free up a place for another under 5, but I was told this was not the case and he would be classed as under 5 until next year, I am so confused. I have 2 other under 5's - 1 my dd and 1 mindee per day in addition to my ds who is now at school?

Once a child is in 10 sessions a week school they are classed as 5.

It would be nice if all employees read all the memos!

It might help if you email your situation to them.

enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk

**mum22** · 29-09-2009, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by sarah707

Once a child is in 10 sessions a week school they are classed as 5.

It would be nice if all employees read all the memos!

It might help if you email your situation to them.

enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk

Just done it, thank you

**daisyboo1980** · 12-10-2009, 08:10 PM

shame its not the same in northern ireland i have a 4 yr old in P1 i have before school and after school and social service wont class him as a 5 yr old so im losing out on a full time place

**little_gems** · 20-10-2009, 05:30 PM

well just to confuse things ofsted have said that:

when a child is 4 or 5 but at full time school (10 sessions) they can be classed as an over 5. All the time e,g school holidays

But my own child who is 4 but in full time school goes back to being an under 5 during school holidays and at weekends.

So i can only fill her space during term time.angry

i think this is very wrong have spoken to quite a few childminders regarding this and they have also been givin this information.

**mummyroysof3** · 20-10-2009, 06:46 PM

i hope not, i was hoping when jack goes full time in jan(not 5 till may) i could advertise his place but couldnt offer the holidays, is that right?

charlotte x

**little_gems** · 20-10-2009, 07:59 PM

thats the understand that ive got.

Pipsqueak · 20-10-2009, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by little_gems

well just to confuse things ofsted have said that:

when a child is 4 or 5 but at full time school (10 sessions) they can be classed as an over 5. All the time e,g school holidays

But my own child who is 4 but in full time school goes back to being an under 5 during school holidays and at weekends.

So i can only fill her space during term time.angry

i think this is very wrong have spoken to quite a few childminders regarding this and they have also been givin this information.

Hmmmm - anyone going to email Ofsted and get clarification of this.
Personally I think its wrong information (and just wrong in general if its accurate info)

**Chell** · 09-12-2009, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by sarah707

Pip has asked me to stick this thread for a while so everyone has a chance to read and digest the contents.

It has taken her a few days and a lot of hair pulling to get this information... thank you Pip!

So to clarify...

Once the children are in full time, 10 sessions a week school they are 5 for the purposes of your ratios...

They are 5 ALL the time, in term time, in holidays, at weekends, on inset days...

This refers to your own children as well as minded children.

They are not 5 when they are settling in or on half days... they must be full time, 10 sessions a week!!

You can have your certificate changed if you like but you don't need to bother.

Thanks Sarah, I came on to ask about my daughter but I think this answers my question. She will be five in January but in full time school. So she doesn't count as an over 5, is that right?

Pipsqueak · 09-12-2009, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Chell

Thanks Sarah, I came on to ask about my daughter but I think this answers my question. She will be five in January but in full time school. So she doesn't count as an over 5, is that right?

If she is in full time school then yes she will/can be classed as 5 for the purpose of ratio